1 00:00:06,289 --> 00:00:03,169 okay welcome to the everything else show 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:06,299 I'm here today with dr. Dorian Friedman 3 00:00:11,749 --> 00:00:08,490 and he's a computer scientist at the 4 00:00:14,780 --> 00:00:11,759 into bliss of interdisciplinary center 5 00:00:17,630 --> 00:00:14,790 and her zilla Israel i may have 6 00:00:21,170 --> 00:00:17,640 pronounced that wrong as possible and he 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:21,180 has recently he is working on a 8 00:00:27,769 --> 00:00:25,050 published paper that basically works on 9 00:00:30,589 --> 00:00:27,779 time travel plot lines and this is going 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:30,599 to be kind of a as said in this article 11 00:00:34,970 --> 00:00:33,690 kind of a brain melting show we're going 12 00:00:37,540 --> 00:00:34,980 to get into all different types of 13 00:00:40,250 --> 00:00:37,550 things he's also involved in a brain 14 00:00:41,990 --> 00:00:40,260 wave virtual reality I'm not sure 15 00:00:44,270 --> 00:00:42,000 exactly what that's called he knows what 16 00:00:49,069 --> 00:00:44,280 it's called and welcome to the show dr. 17 00:00:50,630 --> 00:00:49,079 Friedman hi how are you doing I'm doing 18 00:00:53,689 --> 00:00:50,640 well thanks for joining us in your in 19 00:00:56,630 --> 00:00:53,699 Tel Aviv and you have jet lag so I 20 00:00:58,490 --> 00:00:56,640 appreciate you being on the show yeah 21 00:01:02,479 --> 00:00:58,500 yeah just back from your part of the 22 00:01:05,870 --> 00:01:02,489 world I guess yes yeah um so first of 23 00:01:08,030 --> 00:01:05,880 all before we get into any of these 24 00:01:11,149 --> 00:01:08,040 topics because time travel is always one 25 00:01:12,950 --> 00:01:11,159 that's you know baffled of the brain as 26 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:12,960 far as you know there's all these 27 00:01:19,010 --> 00:01:15,570 different types of scenarios and before 28 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:19,020 we get into that how did you get an 29 00:01:22,999 --> 00:01:21,450 interest in this type of thing I know 30 00:01:26,810 --> 00:01:23,009 you do all kinds of different things 31 00:01:28,789 --> 00:01:26,820 with computers but how did this how did 32 00:01:33,109 --> 00:01:28,799 this perplex you and get you involved in 33 00:01:36,859 --> 00:01:33,119 into looking into the topic yeah no it's 34 00:01:38,149 --> 00:01:36,869 true we look at so research is my second 35 00:01:41,030 --> 00:01:38,159 career you know I was intrapreneur in 36 00:01:44,210 --> 00:01:41,040 technology and now in research I look 37 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:44,220 deliberately at all kinds of extreme 38 00:01:48,889 --> 00:01:46,290 cases of human-machine confluence and 39 00:01:52,389 --> 00:01:48,899 things like virtual reality and brain 40 00:01:56,420 --> 00:01:52,399 computer interface with virtual reality 41 00:02:02,030 --> 00:01:56,430 we realized that most interesting things 42 00:02:06,649 --> 00:02:02,040 is that you can do beyond reality you 43 00:02:08,359 --> 00:02:06,659 can have very concrete this is but you 44 00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:08,369 don't have you can violate the rules of 45 00:02:12,229 --> 00:02:10,319 reality so you know time travel is one 46 00:02:14,020 --> 00:02:12,239 of the favorite of course where you can 47 00:02:18,530 --> 00:02:14,030 try to play with 48 00:02:20,479 --> 00:02:18,540 yes well I you know that the the title 49 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:20,489 the show was up solving the grandfather 50 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:23,730 paradox up it's not I wouldn't say you 51 00:02:27,470 --> 00:02:25,290 solved you just ran a whole bunch of 52 00:02:29,570 --> 00:02:27,480 scenarios through a computer is that is 53 00:02:35,390 --> 00:02:29,580 that basically what what's involved in 54 00:02:38,149 --> 00:02:35,400 that in solving you can even say that a 55 00:02:39,619 --> 00:02:38,159 program so that if you like you can 56 00:02:42,140 --> 00:02:39,629 argue whether the solution is 57 00:02:44,780 --> 00:02:42,150 interesting or not but for me it was 58 00:02:47,539 --> 00:02:44,790 exciting because this is a solution to 59 00:02:50,089 --> 00:02:47,549 the grand and paradox that I haven't 60 00:02:52,250 --> 00:02:50,099 seen mentioned you know in science 61 00:02:54,890 --> 00:02:52,260 fiction literature or in literature and 62 00:02:56,449 --> 00:02:54,900 the computer helped us reach this 63 00:03:01,580 --> 00:02:56,459 solution so for me it's kind of an 64 00:03:04,670 --> 00:03:01,590 interesting solution um yes and end that 65 00:03:07,099 --> 00:03:04,680 so why don't you throw out a couple of 66 00:03:08,990 --> 00:03:07,109 solutions that came up i know there were 67 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:09,000 there were more than there were several 68 00:03:16,099 --> 00:03:13,530 weren't there yeah so first of all are 69 00:03:17,990 --> 00:03:16,109 you familiar with the with the 70 00:03:20,930 --> 00:03:18,000 grandfather paradox which is known as 71 00:03:22,699 --> 00:03:20,940 the primary paradox of time travel yeah 72 00:03:24,530 --> 00:03:22,709 basically if you go back and kill your 73 00:03:27,259 --> 00:03:24,540 father or grandfather or something like 74 00:03:32,839 --> 00:03:27,269 that then you wouldn't be there to begin 75 00:03:35,809 --> 00:03:32,849 with type of situation yeah until you're 76 00:03:38,659 --> 00:03:35,819 let's say your grandfather before he met 77 00:03:40,699 --> 00:03:38,669 your grandmother before so your parents 78 00:03:42,110 --> 00:03:40,709 weren't conceived so you weren't born so 79 00:03:44,569 --> 00:03:42,120 actually you can't go back in time and 80 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:44,579 kill your grandfather so it's a real 81 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:49,290 paradox and surreal because ok it's time 82 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:51,810 isn't impossible you know physicists 83 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:53,090 don't say the time travel is impossible 84 00:04:00,229 --> 00:03:56,250 so it's a real paradox and it's not just 85 00:04:03,140 --> 00:04:00,239 some confusion it's a real question the 86 00:04:05,059 --> 00:04:03,150 well you know when follow the killing of 87 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:05,069 course it makes it more colorful you 88 00:04:10,030 --> 00:04:06,690 don't need to get into such extreme 89 00:04:12,979 --> 00:04:10,040 events you can talk about much gain 90 00:04:14,900 --> 00:04:12,989 examples of the paradox but it is a real 91 00:04:17,270 --> 00:04:14,910 question what happens when you go back 92 00:04:21,050 --> 00:04:17,280 and you change the preconditions of the 93 00:04:26,630 --> 00:04:21,060 future so bright moving so that's what 94 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:26,640 we try um in fact you know I wasn't even 95 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:27,690 trying to so 96 00:04:35,420 --> 00:04:30,570 eh I was trying to see what happens 97 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:35,430 where and you simulate it and then in 98 00:04:41,020 --> 00:04:38,010 order to simulate it you teach the 99 00:04:43,310 --> 00:04:41,030 program which is based on some 100 00:04:46,550 --> 00:04:43,320 artificial intelligence trying to 101 00:04:51,490 --> 00:04:46,560 capture causality okay basically you 102 00:04:54,350 --> 00:04:51,500 know a entails be okay so you teach the 103 00:04:56,300 --> 00:04:54,360 computers causality and then you teach 104 00:04:59,780 --> 00:04:56,310 you teach it about you give it a few 105 00:05:00,950 --> 00:04:59,790 definitions of time and then you hug you 106 00:05:03,770 --> 00:05:00,960 know there's a condition that in order 107 00:05:07,010 --> 00:05:03,780 to be a lie or if you get shot and 108 00:05:09,170 --> 00:05:07,020 you're not alive if you get parents and 109 00:05:11,390 --> 00:05:09,180 if your parents are alive and they must 110 00:05:13,010 --> 00:05:11,400 have been born in such etc so you teach 111 00:05:16,250 --> 00:05:13,020 all that to the computer and I was 112 00:05:18,740 --> 00:05:16,260 waiting to see the computer complain any 113 00:05:21,230 --> 00:05:18,750 books and in fact it didn't it kept 114 00:05:23,030 --> 00:05:21,240 coming up with solutions and some of 115 00:05:26,450 --> 00:05:23,040 them actually makes sense so that was 116 00:05:28,790 --> 00:05:26,460 really really no this was really fun wow 117 00:05:30,620 --> 00:05:28,800 wow he has the function this is the fun 118 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:30,630 part of a I so the program tried to 119 00:05:40,250 --> 00:05:34,410 overcome the paradox and I can tell you 120 00:05:44,420 --> 00:05:40,260 right okay yes please do so yeah one of 121 00:05:47,450 --> 00:05:44,430 the examples is this okay so you go back 122 00:05:50,330 --> 00:05:47,460 in time and you kill your and that's in 123 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:50,340 this case we i simplified it so you kill 124 00:05:56,090 --> 00:05:54,330 your parents before but that's not a big 125 00:05:58,280 --> 00:05:56,100 change i can prove that this is the same 126 00:06:01,040 --> 00:05:58,290 essence of the paradox just like getting 127 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:01,050 your grandparent okay so you kill your 128 00:06:07,220 --> 00:06:05,250 parent before they gave I'm sorry before 129 00:06:10,159 --> 00:06:07,230 they gave birth to you now what you 130 00:06:15,380 --> 00:06:10,169 don't flow is that you go back in time 131 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:15,390 but before you kill you're a parent your 132 00:06:22,550 --> 00:06:18,530 parent goes to the future gives birth to 133 00:06:24,110 --> 00:06:22,560 use back okay so now you kin it but oh 134 00:06:27,590 --> 00:06:24,120 hey Morty you know your mother or your 135 00:06:29,210 --> 00:06:27,600 father but you they are earth to you in 136 00:06:31,130 --> 00:06:29,220 the future so you see when time travel 137 00:06:32,630 --> 00:06:31,140 is allowed you also you're not allowed 138 00:06:33,890 --> 00:06:32,640 only to time travel to the past year 139 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:33,900 also allowed to time travel to the 140 00:06:37,820 --> 00:06:36,210 future and this is how the computer 141 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:37,830 programs whether God I didn't make this 142 00:06:41,519 --> 00:06:40,110 up the computer program this is how it 143 00:06:44,309 --> 00:06:41,529 suggested to 144 00:06:45,959 --> 00:06:44,319 to solve the paradox which you know you 145 00:06:47,939 --> 00:06:45,969 can argue whether it's interesting feel 146 00:06:49,589 --> 00:06:47,949 so free CLE or physics point of view but 147 00:06:52,409 --> 00:06:49,599 it does it for me it's interesting that 148 00:06:56,189 --> 00:06:52,419 it is a good story and that the AI came 149 00:06:57,989 --> 00:06:56,199 up with it so it basically came up with 150 00:07:00,509 --> 00:06:57,999 it for all the and all the different 151 00:07:03,149 --> 00:07:00,519 solutions presented of the different 152 00:07:05,429 --> 00:07:03,159 scenarios so time travel has always 153 00:07:07,109 --> 00:07:05,439 fascinated me even when I was a little 154 00:07:09,359 --> 00:07:07,119 kid there used to be a show called I 155 00:07:11,099 --> 00:07:09,369 can't remember what it was but they used 156 00:07:13,349 --> 00:07:11,109 to walk into this little time travel 157 00:07:15,899 --> 00:07:13,359 machine it was a series on TV it was 158 00:07:19,559 --> 00:07:15,909 pretty bad but I my time doc and Tony 159 00:07:23,609 --> 00:07:19,569 know what was it it might have been with 160 00:07:25,439 --> 00:07:23,619 Doug and Tony hmm I don't know I a 161 00:07:29,369 --> 00:07:25,449 swirling thing I don't know that was 162 00:07:30,659 --> 00:07:29,379 popular in Israel like love yeah well I 163 00:07:33,829 --> 00:07:30,669 was really into it now and probably 164 00:07:36,239 --> 00:07:33,839 horrible to watch but but still it 165 00:07:38,299 --> 00:07:36,249 because of the different scenarios and I 166 00:07:40,889 --> 00:07:38,309 remember as a little kid saying 167 00:07:42,389 --> 00:07:40,899 obviously time travel will never happen 168 00:07:45,509 --> 00:07:42,399 because we don't see anyone from the 169 00:07:48,389 --> 00:07:45,519 future but I've also heard that travel 170 00:07:50,759 --> 00:07:48,399 into the past is impossible compared to 171 00:07:54,269 --> 00:07:50,769 travel into the future what are you what 172 00:07:57,529 --> 00:07:54,279 do you think about that so I want to 173 00:08:00,869 --> 00:07:57,539 emphasize that a lot you know physicists 174 00:08:03,419 --> 00:08:00,879 these are the gabrito an understanding 175 00:08:06,659 --> 00:08:03,429 of physicists people in maybe some 176 00:08:08,129 --> 00:08:06,669 philosophers I did read choir I don't 177 00:08:11,219 --> 00:08:08,139 know it and talk to physicists and 178 00:08:14,519 --> 00:08:11,229 philosophers and so time travel into the 179 00:08:16,529 --> 00:08:14,529 future is relatively simple because you 180 00:08:19,979 --> 00:08:16,539 know all you have to do is hop on it on 181 00:08:21,899 --> 00:08:19,989 a space ship that goes really i'm close 182 00:08:25,439 --> 00:08:21,909 to the you know the speed of light and 183 00:08:28,619 --> 00:08:25,449 then come back and then you kind of time 184 00:08:31,259 --> 00:08:28,629 travel into the future time travel into 185 00:08:33,990 --> 00:08:31,269 the past i think and again i'm not the 186 00:08:35,069 --> 00:08:34,000 feast extent but they would say some of 187 00:08:37,889 --> 00:08:35,079 them would say it happens all the time 188 00:08:39,659 --> 00:08:37,899 on this quantum level you know all these 189 00:08:41,189 --> 00:08:39,669 really really small particles but these 190 00:08:44,579 --> 00:08:41,199 anyway don't make sense you know what 191 00:08:46,889 --> 00:08:44,589 goes on there it's so non-intuitive what 192 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:46,899 happens in the quantum level so what 193 00:08:50,369 --> 00:08:48,610 they're saying is that there are all 194 00:08:54,449 --> 00:08:50,379 kinds of things going on on the quantum 195 00:08:54,810 --> 00:08:54,459 level which could be ensure ever but and 196 00:08:56,250 --> 00:08:54,820 it's 197 00:08:57,570 --> 00:08:56,260 not in person of course they don't know 198 00:09:00,870 --> 00:08:57,580 how to do that but it's not impossible 199 00:09:03,660 --> 00:09:00,880 that you could find either with this 200 00:09:05,910 --> 00:09:03,670 cuanto nor with them you know the 201 00:09:07,710 --> 00:09:05,920 einstein theories to come up with 202 00:09:10,650 --> 00:09:07,720 something that would be equivalent to 203 00:09:13,230 --> 00:09:10,660 time travel on the microscopic level 204 00:09:18,510 --> 00:09:13,240 that is on the level of passing you or 205 00:09:21,330 --> 00:09:18,520 me or some device in time so it advanced 206 00:09:23,970 --> 00:09:21,340 physics they are not out ruling it you 207 00:09:28,790 --> 00:09:23,980 know right right I know that it quite 208 00:09:32,460 --> 00:09:28,800 far from it but they're not think it 209 00:09:34,530 --> 00:09:32,470 yeah I know there's a you know there's a 210 00:09:38,010 --> 00:09:34,540 lot of talk about their about alternate 211 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:38,020 universes and things like that and does 212 00:09:46,470 --> 00:09:41,650 this computer program take any of that 213 00:09:52,140 --> 00:09:46,480 into you know into the process at all of 214 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:52,150 of theorizing and that so that's a good 215 00:09:58,230 --> 00:09:55,330 question so the thing is that the 216 00:10:00,390 --> 00:09:58,240 computer program you are supposed to 217 00:10:02,490 --> 00:10:00,400 tell it how you think the universe 218 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:02,500 behaves so you are supposed to give it a 219 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:05,650 few principles about space and time okay 220 00:10:12,690 --> 00:10:10,810 so and since I don't Oh universe works i 221 00:10:14,910 --> 00:10:12,700 mean the physicists don't know but I'm 222 00:10:16,950 --> 00:10:14,920 even more current than they are so I 223 00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:16,960 gave it kind of the common sense 224 00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:19,600 interpretation which is probably wrong 225 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:23,680 you know but I to give it other 226 00:10:29,070 --> 00:10:26,770 interpretations so you could play around 227 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:29,080 with it and see what happens you see so 228 00:10:34,380 --> 00:10:31,210 you could give it the in fact we show it 229 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:34,390 in the paper alternate world 230 00:10:38,910 --> 00:10:36,910 interpretation or you could insist there 231 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:38,920 are not words and it's all about the 232 00:10:47,580 --> 00:10:41,650 axiom students you give to the computer 233 00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:47,590 program right right um one of the the 234 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:51,160 things that has talked about a lot and 235 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:54,010 in time travel people are actually 236 00:10:58,110 --> 00:10:56,530 saying that they're finding old pictures 237 00:11:00,510 --> 00:10:58,120 and you know I think that's kind of 238 00:11:02,430 --> 00:11:00,520 hokey it's just plain pictures of people 239 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:02,440 that you know like there's one of a guy 240 00:11:05,820 --> 00:11:04,210 carrying a cell phone supposedly but 241 00:11:08,310 --> 00:11:05,830 it's probably a cigarette case or 242 00:11:12,330 --> 00:11:08,320 something like that but 243 00:11:14,850 --> 00:11:12,340 how how would someone you could never 244 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:14,860 really prove or a computer couldn't 245 00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:17,410 prove that there was people traveling 246 00:11:22,170 --> 00:11:20,470 into the past in any type of way uh as 247 00:11:25,410 --> 00:11:22,180 far as I know or is that something you 248 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:25,420 could throw into the mix no 249 00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:28,570 unfortunately I don't think we can help 250 00:11:35,910 --> 00:11:34,000 with this dispute I think you know 251 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:35,920 whether empirically you could time 252 00:11:42,450 --> 00:11:39,250 travel in the future do they are not out 253 00:11:45,390 --> 00:11:42,460 ruling it I think most people would 254 00:11:48,540 --> 00:11:45,400 agree that you know if time travel to 255 00:11:51,450 --> 00:11:48,550 our paths would be possible then you 256 00:11:52,770 --> 00:11:51,460 know the the car they you know where are 257 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:52,780 all these time travel is why are they 258 00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:54,850 showing up so some people are saying you 259 00:11:58,680 --> 00:11:56,320 know that maybe we are not interesting 260 00:12:00,690 --> 00:11:58,690 enough I don't know I think to be honest 261 00:12:04,110 --> 00:12:00,700 common sense wise I think if there was a 262 00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:04,120 time machine we would you can take you 263 00:12:10,110 --> 00:12:06,220 back to any point in time than they 264 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:10,120 would have come visit us but you know my 265 00:12:17,940 --> 00:12:12,430 view you know is always to keep an open 266 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:17,950 mind but strong claim is required as so 267 00:12:21,660 --> 00:12:19,690 if I would if I were to believe in time 268 00:12:26,010 --> 00:12:21,670 travel I would need more than one you 269 00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:26,020 know photo but also I think the 270 00:12:31,290 --> 00:12:28,480 physicists would say that even if a time 271 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:31,300 machine kind of you know working time 272 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:32,890 space would be possible and you could 273 00:12:37,710 --> 00:12:35,410 only time travel to the vicinity of the 274 00:12:40,770 --> 00:12:37,720 time where there the machine is built 275 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:40,780 right where I could be both of the 276 00:12:46,590 --> 00:12:43,210 reason we will not meet angle please all 277 00:12:48,540 --> 00:12:46,600 these two travels but no yeah someone 278 00:12:51,540 --> 00:12:48,550 just wrote on the yard in the chat room 279 00:12:54,510 --> 00:12:51,550 they wish they could have time travel so 280 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:54,520 they could fix all their problems that 281 00:13:00,120 --> 00:12:57,970 would be nice to go back and change you 282 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:00,130 know but that's exactly what that's 283 00:13:06,570 --> 00:13:03,570 exactly one of me imperii because the 284 00:13:10,980 --> 00:13:06,580 immersive virtual reality this is why 285 00:13:13,530 --> 00:13:10,990 after we did the algorithms up with with 286 00:13:15,150 --> 00:13:13,540 Mel Slater I mean I i have a very group 287 00:13:20,060 --> 00:13:15,160 but he has a really really good virtual 288 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:23,210 piercing something very meaning full and 289 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:24,690 vertically like going back and changing 290 00:13:30,890 --> 00:13:28,410 it and and this is again I think it's an 291 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:30,900 interesting poem right where you know as 292 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:34,410 we live more significant parts of our 293 00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:37,050 lives digitally well you know that 294 00:13:42,350 --> 00:13:39,120 digitally you're not less it's different 295 00:13:44,590 --> 00:13:42,360 than the physical world so if in the 296 00:13:48,260 --> 00:13:44,600 digital world we can have time travel 297 00:13:51,410 --> 00:13:48,270 maybe we could some of these decisions 298 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:51,420 you know of some form of a real 299 00:13:58,490 --> 00:13:55,250 experiences time travel interesting Wow 300 00:14:03,250 --> 00:13:58,500 so what about the part of quantum 301 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:03,260 mechanics of when you get into say 302 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:05,370 entanglement and things like that is 303 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:08,570 that something that ever comes up when 304 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:11,760 when you're throwing this these 305 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:13,530 different things and I mean that's so 306 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:16,050 unexplainable by itself and I've always 307 00:14:20,210 --> 00:14:18,450 wondered if there could be some type of 308 00:14:25,270 --> 00:14:20,220 computer program to figure out how that 309 00:14:28,370 --> 00:14:25,280 works um yeah so this is beyond my 310 00:14:33,830 --> 00:14:28,380 expertise this is where you know I would 311 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:33,840 need to work work with the experts so I 312 00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:35,850 did get contacted now by one group of 313 00:14:41,420 --> 00:14:37,440 experts who are looking into a program 314 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:41,430 in the context of relativity theory and 315 00:14:48,830 --> 00:14:44,970 maybe to try and help explain thing or 316 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:48,840 illustrate things and I don't think I 317 00:14:54,140 --> 00:14:52,050 think all we're trying to do formal 318 00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:54,150 models and equations you know there's 319 00:14:59,570 --> 00:14:56,880 not a big difference between equations 320 00:15:02,090 --> 00:14:59,580 and AI i think our contribution with the 321 00:15:05,450 --> 00:15:02,100 AI and the virtual reality is it might 322 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:05,460 help make it more concrete and even the 323 00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:07,650 physicists my i hope might may find it 324 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:12,480 useful to you know not necessarily to 325 00:15:17,210 --> 00:15:14,730 arrive new breakthrough the size but to 326 00:15:20,810 --> 00:15:17,220 understand what they're doing maybe give 327 00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:20,820 them some insights right right i'll be a 328 00:15:25,820 --> 00:15:22,700 lot of friend to go with quantum physics 329 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:25,830 now i have to take just this quick break 330 00:15:31,250 --> 00:15:28,170 just ask you is there a way you can look 331 00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:31,260 on your phone to see i'm not sure how 332 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:32,910 the google hangout 333 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:35,370 app works but are you able to speak 334 00:15:41,150 --> 00:15:36,930 through your headset like you would if 335 00:15:43,580 --> 00:15:41,160 you were talking on the phone um you 336 00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:43,590 mean without the speaker just through 337 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:47,430 the speaker yeah I could that I could 338 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:50,610 that I could do that okay because it's 339 00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:52,170 all I'm having a little bit of 340 00:16:01,640 --> 00:15:55,110 difficulty understanding um everything 341 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:01,650 that you're saying um yes well you know 342 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:05,490 what to good okay I'll try to figure out 343 00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:12,690 how to do that okay no problem when when 344 00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:16,110 you get into this topic you I know that 345 00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:18,180 you were doing a lot of other work and 346 00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:20,760 so let's talk a little bit about that to 347 00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:26,220 the brain thought and NVR or this sounds 348 00:16:29,870 --> 00:16:28,110 like some type of work that would be 349 00:16:33,890 --> 00:16:29,880 really good for people that are say 350 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:33,900 paralyzed or yeah that sounds better can 351 00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:37,710 you hear me okay yeah yeah yeah other 352 00:16:43,310 --> 00:16:39,510 than the limitations of the internet I 353 00:16:46,220 --> 00:16:43,320 think we're quite good yeah so the other 354 00:16:49,130 --> 00:16:46,230 or the main line of research that we do 355 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:49,140 is brain computer interfaces some would 356 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:52,610 call it brain machine interfaces and 357 00:17:01,160 --> 00:16:57,210 only do the idea is very is relatively 358 00:17:03,410 --> 00:17:01,170 simple the idea is to pick up some 359 00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:03,420 information coming out from your brain 360 00:17:08,510 --> 00:17:05,910 you know we we can just a few ways we 361 00:17:13,460 --> 00:17:08,520 can record brain activity you know even 362 00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:13,470 if they are speaking now we could record 363 00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:15,990 a brain activity and then in principle 364 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:20,000 we know how to try to encode or decode 365 00:17:23,930 --> 00:17:22,290 some of these brain activity because 366 00:17:26,690 --> 00:17:23,940 some of the mental patterns you know 367 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:26,700 so-called thoughts and then once we 368 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:28,650 recorded it we can use it and send it to 369 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:31,290 any kind of device and actually kind of 370 00:17:36,170 --> 00:17:34,410 device by thought so the idea is not 371 00:17:40,850 --> 00:17:36,180 very complicated it's been around since 372 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:40,860 the 1970s I think in practice the main 373 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:44,250 limitation is of course a extracting 374 00:17:48,060 --> 00:17:46,090 really good information from 375 00:17:51,690 --> 00:17:48,070 brain of a person you know who's alive 376 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:51,700 and decoding this information but it's 377 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:54,610 not impossible community you've been 378 00:18:01,590 --> 00:17:57,010 doing making progress especially in the 379 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:01,600 last 20 years well now when I think of 380 00:18:06,210 --> 00:18:03,730 like brain activity it just seems like 381 00:18:10,409 --> 00:18:06,220 they would be like electronic pulses 382 00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:10,419 going through I just don't understand 383 00:18:14,940 --> 00:18:13,150 how a thought could be interpreted and 384 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:14,950 turned into code can you kind of explain 385 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:18,970 why don't ya it's it's so when you think 386 00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:21,610 right like that everyone was alive you 387 00:18:29,130 --> 00:18:24,640 have a lot of neurons in your brain that 388 00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:29,140 are firing in fact 10 to the power of 11 389 00:18:35,159 --> 00:18:32,740 or bronze to the power of 15 synapses so 390 00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:35,169 it's like very huge numbers but they 391 00:18:43,019 --> 00:18:39,340 generate electrical activity okay de la 392 00:18:44,730 --> 00:18:43,029 a cricket is very very weak and we need 393 00:18:46,409 --> 00:18:44,740 to measure it through your skull unless 394 00:18:50,940 --> 00:18:46,419 you know you're willing to go through 395 00:18:53,789 --> 00:18:50,950 some implant and which you know some 396 00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:53,799 medical reasons people do but unless you 397 00:18:58,110 --> 00:18:55,120 put an implant you have to learn either 398 00:19:00,450 --> 00:18:58,120 this electrical activity from wow so 399 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:00,460 these are the challenges but still they 400 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:04,510 after a hundred years of EG research we 401 00:19:12,659 --> 00:19:09,490 know how to detect certain thing is you 402 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:12,669 know electrical fields generated by your 403 00:19:19,230 --> 00:19:15,130 brain so when you think about your right 404 00:19:20,669 --> 00:19:19,240 hand you know also your left hemisphere 405 00:19:22,769 --> 00:19:20,679 changes a little bit when you think 406 00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:22,779 about your left hand we see the response 407 00:19:29,580 --> 00:19:26,880 in the right hemisphere so we can try to 408 00:19:32,340 --> 00:19:29,590 decode you know it's very far from 409 00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:32,350 specific thoughts and especially with 410 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:35,200 EEG but we can try to decode for example 411 00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:37,090 if you're imagining right hand movement 412 00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:40,240 or left hi by the way if we have 413 00:19:47,519 --> 00:19:43,840 invasive electrodes we can train there 414 00:19:51,090 --> 00:19:47,529 are examples where that they can really 415 00:19:53,659 --> 00:19:51,100 very specific in mental patterns such as 416 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:53,669 thinking about a very specific person 417 00:19:59,620 --> 00:19:57,010 and it's not impossible you don't even 418 00:20:01,360 --> 00:19:59,630 you don't even know 419 00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:01,370 need to know the code of the brain you 420 00:20:05,650 --> 00:20:02,990 just do a lot of machine learning and 421 00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:05,660 June and of course I'm just telling the 422 00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:06,830 brain helps are you there still by the 423 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:13,130 way Wow uh so how how would this work in 424 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:16,010 virtual reality in other words I saw a 425 00:20:20,770 --> 00:20:18,410 video where it showed where someone was 426 00:20:23,050 --> 00:20:20,780 actually like thinking them their way 427 00:20:28,750 --> 00:20:23,060 through this tropical island how does 428 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:28,760 that how does that work right so and we 429 00:20:35,140 --> 00:20:31,450 were one of the first groups back in 430 00:20:40,140 --> 00:20:35,150 2003 that started connecting the brain 431 00:20:42,580 --> 00:20:40,150 computer interface to virtual reality 432 00:20:45,070 --> 00:20:42,590 imagine that we can detect if you are 433 00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:45,080 thinking about your right hand your left 434 00:20:50,050 --> 00:20:47,270 hand or feet and i will tell you okay 435 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:50,060 here's this avatar and now you control 436 00:20:53,470 --> 00:20:51,410 it if you want to go forward just 437 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:53,480 imagine your feet imagine that you're 438 00:20:57,340 --> 00:20:55,610 walking if you want to turn right 439 00:20:59,560 --> 00:20:57,350 imagine your right hand if you want to 440 00:21:01,810 --> 00:20:59,570 turn left and legend move in your left 441 00:21:06,820 --> 00:21:01,820 hand and this way you control an avatar 442 00:21:09,660 --> 00:21:06,830 and you start performing tasks so we've 443 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:09,670 done this with eg starting in tooth 444 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:12,730 fairy with colleagues in Austria and 445 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:17,810 then in 2010 we started a large project 446 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:20,450 where we did this with a with an fMRI 447 00:21:26,170 --> 00:21:23,690 machine so that's these very expensive 448 00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:26,180 large scanners that you can find in 449 00:21:32,020 --> 00:21:29,510 hospitals and these are not very 450 00:21:35,470 --> 00:21:32,030 accessible and quite expensive but they 451 00:21:38,140 --> 00:21:35,480 give you better resolution so better 452 00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:38,150 information from the brain we were able 453 00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:44,270 to squeeze your phone people perform 454 00:21:52,810 --> 00:21:50,510 more complex tasks um what so what do 455 00:21:54,970 --> 00:21:52,820 you think the future I mean it's 456 00:21:57,700 --> 00:21:54,980 probably your just probably on the the 457 00:21:59,950 --> 00:21:57,710 bottom floor on this as far as if the 458 00:22:02,710 --> 00:21:59,960 technology goes do you think eventually 459 00:22:06,370 --> 00:22:02,720 that will be able to control things say 460 00:22:10,750 --> 00:22:06,380 in our household stuff like that yeah 461 00:22:13,140 --> 00:22:10,760 yeah absolutely i think it's it's very 462 00:22:16,980 --> 00:22:13,150 very challenging 463 00:22:19,659 --> 00:22:16,990 very far from you know thought reading 464 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:19,669 and certainly with you know with 465 00:22:25,930 --> 00:22:22,850 consumer level electronics but i also 466 00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:25,940 have a lot of respect to you know the 467 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:28,790 Silicon Valley so you know once they 468 00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:31,490 figure out that this is the next thing 469 00:22:37,390 --> 00:22:35,120 they they think as consumers should be 470 00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:37,400 doing then they just put a lot of money 471 00:22:42,250 --> 00:22:41,120 a lot of very smart people and start how 472 00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:42,260 to make it you know a little bit easier 473 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:45,110 a little faster and because in the 474 00:22:49,060 --> 00:22:46,850 science labs we know how to do that you 475 00:22:52,299 --> 00:22:49,070 see using very expensive and very 476 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:52,309 invasive methods we know how to do this 477 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:55,250 thing so that the it's not impossible 478 00:23:00,250 --> 00:22:57,770 again it's just a matter of faith 479 00:23:01,870 --> 00:23:00,260 engineering but it looks like one of 480 00:23:05,950 --> 00:23:01,880 these things that sooner or later I 481 00:23:08,140 --> 00:23:05,960 think Silicon Valley definitely try to 482 00:23:09,970 --> 00:23:08,150 build now I know this sounds kind of 483 00:23:11,970 --> 00:23:09,980 wacky but do you ever think there'll be 484 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:11,980 a time where there could be a wireless 485 00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:16,850 almost like telepathy to to this through 486 00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:19,360 this type of thing or is it always 487 00:23:26,169 --> 00:23:21,049 someone always going to have to be 488 00:23:28,270 --> 00:23:26,179 connected like wired in do you think so 489 00:23:31,450 --> 00:23:28,280 again this is very very challenging 490 00:23:34,299 --> 00:23:31,460 right now our challenges are just to get 491 00:23:38,140 --> 00:23:34,309 the information but the physicists are 492 00:23:40,930 --> 00:23:38,150 saying you know what if you can get the 493 00:23:43,919 --> 00:23:40,940 information from the electric field then 494 00:23:48,820 --> 00:23:43,929 it's possible to measure it remotely 495 00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:48,830 really wow so yeah so right now they're 496 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:50,809 they're able to measure for example your 497 00:23:59,490 --> 00:23:52,850 heart rate remote remote key which is 498 00:24:01,840 --> 00:23:59,500 also i think quite impressive and friday 499 00:24:02,980 --> 00:24:01,850 some psychological you know if you do it 500 00:24:06,850 --> 00:24:02,990 really accurately in you know the 501 00:24:09,659 --> 00:24:06,860 context then you can infer some things 502 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:09,669 about your responses and remotely 503 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:13,970 without your being aware of that and in 504 00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:15,650 principle and again this is where i'm 505 00:24:21,730 --> 00:24:18,260 not the clear physicists and more into 506 00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:21,740 the algorithms i think right now our 507 00:24:25,030 --> 00:24:23,360 problems are much more difficult in 508 00:24:26,850 --> 00:24:25,040 other fronts but who knows maybe they'll 509 00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:26,860 be able to do it without 510 00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:28,420 actually attaching and Alex road to your 511 00:24:34,020 --> 00:24:32,230 brain aha someone in charge doesn't seem 512 00:24:38,039 --> 00:24:34,030 like a very doesn't seem very likely 513 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:38,049 right now but who knows I know look how 514 00:24:42,539 --> 00:24:40,450 much technology has changed just in you 515 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:42,549 know 10 years or even think you know a 516 00:24:48,930 --> 00:24:45,010 few years so who knows what another 517 00:24:51,630 --> 00:24:48,940 actually 50 years will change in the 518 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:51,640 chat room someone wanted to know are you 519 00:24:59,730 --> 00:24:54,330 familiar with Google's idea of super 520 00:25:02,150 --> 00:24:59,740 super AI uh yeah yeah i mean i muck they 521 00:25:05,310 --> 00:25:02,160 must have quite a lot of things by now 522 00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:05,320 thou research to understand the brain we 523 00:25:11,539 --> 00:25:08,559 use machine learning we use the same 524 00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:11,549 kind of techniques that the endow 525 00:25:15,870 --> 00:25:13,990 working really really hard on you know 526 00:25:19,049 --> 00:25:15,880 they are in Google they are mostly 527 00:25:21,450 --> 00:25:19,059 trying to understand images and maybe 528 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:21,460 voice recognition and we are applying 529 00:25:27,409 --> 00:25:23,890 similar methods to understand brain 530 00:25:31,710 --> 00:25:27,419 signals images of brain scans for exam 531 00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:31,720 so it's relatively similar and once they 532 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:34,750 they you know once they is important 533 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:36,370 they get up all the smallest people in 534 00:25:42,409 --> 00:25:38,530 the world get them to work really hard 535 00:25:45,060 --> 00:25:42,419 and they get really outstanding results 536 00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:45,070 right now what are your what are your 537 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:49,360 thoughts on I think it's ray kurzweil a 538 00:25:59,250 --> 00:25:52,210 singularity on do you think that's a 539 00:26:03,120 --> 00:25:59,260 possibility in the future so yeah you 540 00:26:07,530 --> 00:26:03,130 see this is the thing that I think ray 541 00:26:11,370 --> 00:26:07,540 quotes were raises good questions but my 542 00:26:13,770 --> 00:26:11,380 my problem as a scientist is that he has 543 00:26:18,510 --> 00:26:13,780 no evidence whatsoever for the answers 544 00:26:20,850 --> 00:26:18,520 he is providing you say so well the 545 00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:20,860 whole discussion about singularity is 546 00:26:24,690 --> 00:26:21,910 interesting by the way it's not very 547 00:26:26,430 --> 00:26:24,700 good sign the guy that first raised this 548 00:26:28,830 --> 00:26:26,440 issue of what happens with computers 549 00:26:31,980 --> 00:26:28,840 will be as smart as we are or smaller 550 00:26:34,770 --> 00:26:31,990 it's John for Newman very very serious 551 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:34,780 scientists in this twentieth century so 552 00:26:40,850 --> 00:26:37,690 the questions are good but jumping from 553 00:26:43,910 --> 00:26:40,860 the questions to the conclusions 554 00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:43,920 that we thing in 20 29 and then deciding 555 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:46,260 that we can upload our consciousness to 556 00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:48,570 the cloud or whatever we'll all live in 557 00:26:54,650 --> 00:26:51,360 some you know Google sphere or some are 558 00:26:58,700 --> 00:26:54,660 ever so these are very very these are 559 00:27:00,890 --> 00:26:58,710 conclusions that are not do not rely on 560 00:27:03,710 --> 00:27:00,900 any only evidence so I think what what 561 00:27:07,970 --> 00:27:03,720 happens in records violin and others 562 00:27:09,980 --> 00:27:07,980 were into singularities mixing hello lot 563 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:09,990 of evidence and science with a lot of 564 00:27:18,110 --> 00:27:16,770 which and in speculation I I think I you 565 00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:18,120 know you imagine if someone could 566 00:27:25,030 --> 00:27:22,470 actually download say thoughts of their 567 00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:25,040 brain for instance of someone that's a 568 00:27:30,919 --> 00:27:28,190 specialist someone that has a lot of 569 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:30,929 knowledge of a certain subject or 570 00:27:35,930 --> 00:27:33,410 something like that I mean if you could 571 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:35,940 instantly I think that was in the matrix 572 00:27:40,190 --> 00:27:37,049 or something like that where you could 573 00:27:43,159 --> 00:27:40,200 you know download uh you know memories 574 00:27:44,510 --> 00:27:43,169 or whatever it is but that would really 575 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:44,520 be something you know a lot of times I 576 00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:46,410 I'm in the fine arts and antiques 577 00:27:50,570 --> 00:27:49,049 business authority this is science okay 578 00:27:55,580 --> 00:27:50,580 no no I know I'm off I'm off on 579 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:55,590 something else sorry yeah okay yeah yeah 580 00:27:59,570 --> 00:27:57,330 I was just thinking you know a lot of 581 00:28:01,760 --> 00:27:59,580 times when someone has so much knowledge 582 00:28:03,860 --> 00:28:01,770 and then they're gone all that knowledge 583 00:28:05,570 --> 00:28:03,870 if it's not written into a book or 584 00:28:08,150 --> 00:28:05,580 something that is just plain gone it 585 00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:08,160 would be just really amazing if someday 586 00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:11,520 someone could actually download their 587 00:28:16,730 --> 00:28:13,710 specialty or whatever and you know to 588 00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:16,740 help education move ahead you know that 589 00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:19,110 I I'm kind of battling I are completely 590 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:22,110 agree I completely agree so we had 591 00:28:27,730 --> 00:28:25,290 another project which was about the 592 00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:27,740 proxy and again this was funded by the 593 00:28:34,130 --> 00:28:31,919 Union and so we had a few years some 594 00:28:36,289 --> 00:28:34,140 budget to claim with it so the idea is 595 00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:36,299 that we try to build a clone of you you 596 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:39,750 know from your digital whatever so again 597 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:42,090 this thing institue them properly you 598 00:28:45,710 --> 00:28:43,770 have to have the whole industry be 599 00:28:48,190 --> 00:28:45,720 involved but it's not we show that it's 600 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:48,200 not impossible you want to take on on 601 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:52,290 digital life and then create a digital 602 00:28:58,430 --> 00:28:54,450 clone of fuel but 603 00:29:01,340 --> 00:28:58,440 being made to to respond to things and 604 00:29:05,690 --> 00:29:01,350 kind of maybe replace you to some extent 605 00:29:09,260 --> 00:29:05,700 to some extent so advanced we are 606 00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:09,270 playing with today at that possible to 607 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:11,910 start playing with these ideas yeah you 608 00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:13,410 must really enjoy what you do that 609 00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:16,110 sounds pretty exciting actually you know 610 00:29:20,770 --> 00:29:17,910 what you are right you are right as i 611 00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:20,780 said this is my second career after 612 00:29:27,050 --> 00:29:23,760 intrapreneurial industry i realized that 613 00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:27,060 you know to have fun i really i moved to 614 00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:29,940 to university and that's where where I'm 615 00:29:34,430 --> 00:29:32,310 allowed to really do what I'm you know 616 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:34,440 what you were you're interested in yeah 617 00:29:42,290 --> 00:29:38,490 yeah it's a lot of fun these days I bet 618 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:42,300 now someone like going back to the Act 619 00:29:48,380 --> 00:29:43,650 to the time travel thing in the chat 620 00:29:51,740 --> 00:29:48,390 room well let's see it in your 621 00:29:53,050 --> 00:29:51,750 understanding is time travel does time 622 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:53,060 probably have anything to do with 623 00:30:01,130 --> 00:29:57,810 spiritual dimensions I don't know no I'm 624 00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:01,140 I'm again I'm open-minded but I have no 625 00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:04,080 belief in spiritual what so ever again 626 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:06,000 because we don't need this you know we 627 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:07,410 don't need to assume any spirituality 628 00:30:12,890 --> 00:30:09,930 you know the world is so complicated the 629 00:30:17,210 --> 00:30:12,900 brain is so complicated you know so 630 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:17,220 science is very far from explaining 631 00:30:22,610 --> 00:30:18,570 everything there is to know about the 632 00:30:25,220 --> 00:30:22,620 brain and the mind so for me it's it's 633 00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:25,230 fast it's an ad for you start talking 634 00:30:29,570 --> 00:30:27,840 about spirituality okay yeah we're not 635 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:29,580 even there you know there's the so many 636 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:32,970 mysteries before oh you know the brain 637 00:30:39,860 --> 00:30:35,610 itself is just you know such a mystery 638 00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:39,870 there's so much exploring to do when it 639 00:30:47,660 --> 00:30:44,880 comes to that now are you I think this 640 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:47,670 question in the message board is a are 641 00:30:53,380 --> 00:30:49,890 you optimistic or pessimistic about the 642 00:30:56,090 --> 00:30:53,390 future and I don't know if that means 643 00:30:58,330 --> 00:30:56,100 technology or but i'm sure you're 644 00:31:01,940 --> 00:30:58,340 probably optimistic about technology 645 00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:01,950 yeah i guess the quiz thing about your 646 00:31:07,940 --> 00:31:04,880 elected president or something like yeah 647 00:31:10,509 --> 00:31:07,950 it's about so 648 00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:10,519 the if you're talking about technology 649 00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:12,720 there is what we call the techno 650 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:15,809 dystopia if we stop in view which is oh 651 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:17,610 my God we're all going to turn in a row 652 00:31:22,220 --> 00:31:20,130 Oh boats are going to kill us or control 653 00:31:24,620 --> 00:31:22,230 the world or whatever or we're all going 654 00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:24,630 to be spending our lives there in the 655 00:31:29,570 --> 00:31:26,880 phones so that's a very pessimistic view 656 00:31:32,299 --> 00:31:29,580 which I'm really I'm not buying it i'll 657 00:31:34,430 --> 00:31:32,309 tell you why but then the very 658 00:31:36,889 --> 00:31:34,440 optimistic view which is a singer Larry 659 00:31:39,860 --> 00:31:36,899 you know some very very influential 660 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:39,870 trends in Silicon Valley where they say 661 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:41,370 you know technology is the solution to 662 00:31:45,620 --> 00:31:44,130 all our problems you know like global 663 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:45,630 warming yeah we'll just fix it with 664 00:31:49,820 --> 00:31:47,250 technology you know people killing each 665 00:31:51,649 --> 00:31:49,830 other yet I will know technology and 666 00:31:54,649 --> 00:31:51,659 technology will solve all humanity 667 00:31:57,769 --> 00:31:54,659 problems and I don't buy that either so 668 00:32:00,110 --> 00:31:57,779 I'm kind of more in the middle in terms 669 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:00,120 that you know humans have always been 670 00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:03,210 dependent on technology and co-evolving 671 00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:04,590 with the technology we are developing 672 00:32:10,580 --> 00:32:08,700 and it's not going to change and it is 673 00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:10,590 going to change in the sense of the 674 00:32:15,769 --> 00:32:12,630 technology is changing but the 675 00:32:18,259 --> 00:32:15,779 dependence is all it's been around you 676 00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:18,269 offer many many thousands of years and 677 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:21,360 we keep we keep inventing ourselves else 678 00:32:25,820 --> 00:32:23,250 knowledge ease but it's not about 679 00:32:31,180 --> 00:32:25,830 pessimistic or optimistic I think you 680 00:32:35,629 --> 00:32:33,440 you know someone made a good point in 681 00:32:38,299 --> 00:32:35,639 that kind of as a joke in the chat room 682 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:38,309 but I've seen the movie it will happen 683 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:41,370 and all the movies that you see on the 684 00:32:45,919 --> 00:32:44,130 future it does seem you know pretty 685 00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:45,929 pitiful like we're always being 686 00:32:50,450 --> 00:32:47,519 destroyed by or destroying ourselves 687 00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:50,460 which that is you know that is 688 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:54,110 unfortunately a possibility you know 689 00:33:00,019 --> 00:32:57,090 there are different scenarios that could 690 00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:00,029 happen I think we have to grow a lot I'm 691 00:33:09,169 --> 00:33:05,840 still as socialite there no reason to 692 00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:09,179 yeah there is no reason to be too 693 00:33:14,060 --> 00:33:10,799 pessimistic because we can look at 694 00:33:15,740 --> 00:33:14,070 history you know and in history like for 695 00:33:19,250 --> 00:33:15,750 now if you look around do you have some 696 00:33:21,149 --> 00:33:19,260 amazing technologies that changed the 697 00:33:23,549 --> 00:33:21,159 word like we are now 698 00:33:25,789 --> 00:33:23,559 maybe with not perfect quality but we 699 00:33:29,479 --> 00:33:25,799 are talking on a very very low cost 700 00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:29,489 consumer device over huge distances and 701 00:33:34,169 --> 00:33:31,840 this is something that was unconceivable 702 00:33:36,359 --> 00:33:34,179 to our you know our grandparents or 703 00:33:38,339 --> 00:33:36,369 whatever if you look at the history 704 00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:38,349 there were always people saying wow this 705 00:33:41,070 --> 00:33:39,609 is going to be the end of the lecture 706 00:33:45,149 --> 00:33:41,080 you should read what people wrote 707 00:33:48,629 --> 00:33:45,159 winning van cameras in the middle of the 708 00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:48,639 19th century so people were always 709 00:33:53,460 --> 00:33:51,279 terrified of the possibilities and then 710 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:53,470 you realize we just set up adapt or coed 711 00:33:58,769 --> 00:33:55,570 apt with technology so and it's not 712 00:34:01,889 --> 00:33:58,779 always perfect no we sometimes we lose 713 00:34:03,810 --> 00:34:01,899 of the the good things we had before we 714 00:34:06,419 --> 00:34:03,820 had these technologies but it really 715 00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:06,429 never had leads to disaster I mean we're 716 00:34:11,730 --> 00:34:09,760 still here yes I think it's kind of 717 00:34:14,579 --> 00:34:11,740 working for us so far with a million in 718 00:34:18,029 --> 00:34:14,589 terms of humanity and technology right I 719 00:34:20,190 --> 00:34:18,039 think if there are some safeties set in 720 00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:20,200 place you know a lot of times I've heard 721 00:34:27,359 --> 00:34:24,609 the scenario where if a AI starts 722 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:27,369 recreating itself and it's given a 723 00:34:31,799 --> 00:34:29,770 problem say solve this and which 724 00:34:35,129 --> 00:34:31,809 actually turned into destroying you know 725 00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:35,139 the human entities or whatever but if I 726 00:34:39,450 --> 00:34:36,879 think if there are safeties put in place 727 00:34:41,940 --> 00:34:39,460 no matter where we go in technology then 728 00:34:43,710 --> 00:34:41,950 we can eliminate the threats that could 729 00:34:46,529 --> 00:34:43,720 possibly happen but you have to have a 730 00:34:48,210 --> 00:34:46,539 lot of fail-safes so those things you 731 00:34:50,369 --> 00:34:48,220 know couldn't happen but but this is a 732 00:34:52,919 --> 00:34:50,379 very difficult good because you know 733 00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:52,929 who's gonna put these safety regulations 734 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:55,510 do you trust the government's hmm I 735 00:34:59,460 --> 00:34:57,970 don't know do you trust you even if you 736 00:35:02,400 --> 00:34:59,470 trust your own government you trust the 737 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:02,410 government of fellows Korea or Iran or 738 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:07,210 whatever to to you know to regulate 739 00:35:13,470 --> 00:35:11,170 certain technologies why I agreed that 740 00:35:15,029 --> 00:35:13,480 you know when it to be edited and we 741 00:35:18,210 --> 00:35:15,039 need to understand implications and 742 00:35:19,559 --> 00:35:18,220 society engage understand and make 743 00:35:23,099 --> 00:35:19,569 regulations but i'm not sure i have 744 00:35:25,049 --> 00:35:23,109 anyone to trust here so this is where 745 00:35:27,930 --> 00:35:25,059 i'm a bit more and concerning the show 746 00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:27,940 Oh turn it's not so easy to put in 747 00:35:31,170 --> 00:35:29,710 regulations there's never been a case 748 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:31,180 where humanity said no we don't want 749 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:32,770 this technology so you know will not 750 00:35:39,350 --> 00:35:34,770 will not use it 751 00:35:42,140 --> 00:35:39,360 right right yeah yep interesting so as 752 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:42,150 far as sup as far as the work you're 753 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:44,250 doing you mentioned earlier that you had 754 00:35:49,070 --> 00:35:46,170 some funding and you were working on 755 00:35:51,860 --> 00:35:49,080 different projects what about someone 756 00:35:57,020 --> 00:35:51,870 that has handicapped oh you're doing any 757 00:36:01,250 --> 00:35:57,030 type of work as far as that goes yes yes 758 00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:01,260 this is the brain-computer community now 759 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:05,910 is trying to help our people because 760 00:36:11,570 --> 00:36:08,850 again it has relatively little off to 761 00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:11,580 offer people who are who are healthy 762 00:36:17,620 --> 00:36:13,440 they would better off be using their 763 00:36:21,650 --> 00:36:17,630 bodies but there's people doing great 764 00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:21,660 gray Pro project or paralyzed people we 765 00:36:28,370 --> 00:36:26,400 have a project with ALS patients you 766 00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:28,380 know ALS you might remember it for this 767 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:31,590 I s package it's the stable disease 768 00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:34,650 where you gradually boom you know 769 00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:36,510 parallel eyes and all you're almost 770 00:36:41,930 --> 00:36:39,990 completely locked in so we have we are 771 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:41,940 trying to come up with a very very 772 00:36:47,210 --> 00:36:45,210 simple low-cost solution for them which 773 00:36:50,300 --> 00:36:47,220 is based not on your brain activities 774 00:36:52,910 --> 00:36:50,310 but also on all the residual muscles so 775 00:36:54,830 --> 00:36:52,920 we use the antennas which usually really 776 00:36:57,470 --> 00:36:54,840 are used for from measuring brain 777 00:36:58,940 --> 00:36:57,480 activity and we also measure whatever 778 00:37:02,030 --> 00:36:58,950 information they have left in the 779 00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:02,040 muscles in the face in the eyes and try 780 00:37:07,220 --> 00:37:03,660 to provide them with a practical 781 00:37:10,010 --> 00:37:07,230 solution and quite it's quite incredible 782 00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:10,020 how technology can change the life of 783 00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:13,440 such individuals yes it's i think that 784 00:37:20,030 --> 00:37:16,140 there's a real demand for for something 785 00:37:23,420 --> 00:37:20,040 like that when when someone has brain 786 00:37:25,790 --> 00:37:23,430 waves are they just limited to do they 787 00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:25,800 just go as far as say the scalp i know 788 00:37:30,650 --> 00:37:28,560 they put the electrodes on the scalp but 789 00:37:32,690 --> 00:37:30,660 do they actually go i know this is kind 790 00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:32,700 of a strange question but do they go 791 00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:34,710 outside of the scalp a little bit or is 792 00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:36,960 it just is that as far as they go is 793 00:37:44,090 --> 00:37:40,800 from what you know you know it's a good 794 00:37:45,890 --> 00:37:44,100 question I um I don't know exactly the 795 00:37:47,350 --> 00:37:45,900 physics but i would guess that you have 796 00:37:50,050 --> 00:37:47,360 an electrical field 797 00:37:51,910 --> 00:37:50,060 and you know of course we measure it on 798 00:37:54,250 --> 00:37:51,920 the scalp and we try to they will make 799 00:37:57,070 --> 00:37:54,260 it election to get the maximum 800 00:38:01,270 --> 00:37:57,080 information not impossible that the 801 00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:01,280 electrical field it goes out a few 802 00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:03,680 millimeters or you know maybe centimeter 803 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:04,910 I don't know if it goes as far as 804 00:38:09,850 --> 00:38:07,130 sandwiches you know this is where you 805 00:38:12,220 --> 00:38:09,860 really I again my background is 806 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:12,230 mathematics and I would love to know the 807 00:38:15,460 --> 00:38:13,970 answers exactly to understand your 808 00:38:19,540 --> 00:38:15,470 question but this is where you need to 809 00:38:23,380 --> 00:38:19,550 understand the electronics of how all 810 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:23,390 these electrical fields behave right 811 00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:28,010 right but you hear of a you know you 812 00:38:33,070 --> 00:38:30,830 hear of possible telepathy you know and 813 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:33,080 that's a I don't know if there's ever 814 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:35,570 any proof of that or whatever but it 815 00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:37,130 seems like that would be along the lines 816 00:38:44,350 --> 00:38:40,250 of you know energy coming out somehow a 817 00:38:46,090 --> 00:38:44,360 little further than just skin deep hey 818 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:46,100 and there's no I don't know if there's 819 00:38:49,810 --> 00:38:47,930 any proof of telepathy out there it's 820 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:49,820 just you know I try to be open minded on 821 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:53,690 you know subjects like that yeah so 822 00:39:00,130 --> 00:38:57,170 again so I think and my position is yes 823 00:39:03,130 --> 00:39:00,140 we we have to be open-minded it be 824 00:39:05,050 --> 00:39:03,140 there's a lot of things again I you know 825 00:39:06,700 --> 00:39:05,060 if you look at history there's a lot of 826 00:39:08,380 --> 00:39:06,710 things that you people thought would be 827 00:39:11,740 --> 00:39:08,390 completely crazy but then turned out to 828 00:39:14,830 --> 00:39:11,750 be true like the earth being not flat 829 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:14,840 and in order to imagine that they 830 00:39:20,290 --> 00:39:16,850 discovered that the world around us is 831 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:20,300 full of these little creatures for 832 00:39:26,260 --> 00:39:24,170 example you know magic mr. goes around 833 00:39:28,540 --> 00:39:26,270 and says you know everywhere around us 834 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:28,550 there's these little animals but we just 835 00:39:33,370 --> 00:39:30,770 can't see them so you know I think we 836 00:39:36,670 --> 00:39:33,380 really have to be open-minded but the 837 00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:36,680 point is again strong clear strong 838 00:39:42,100 --> 00:39:40,310 evidence you know so if someone wants to 839 00:39:44,260 --> 00:39:42,110 know about telepathy fine you know i'm 840 00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:44,270 not i'm fine with any claim you can make 841 00:39:50,170 --> 00:39:46,310 but just come up with really really damn 842 00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:50,180 strong evidence now I it could be that 843 00:39:54,850 --> 00:39:52,640 you know there's all kinds of things 844 00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:54,860 were picking up I think most of the 845 00:40:00,470 --> 00:39:56,720 mostly people try to study these things 846 00:40:01,820 --> 00:40:00,480 um eventually 847 00:40:05,570 --> 00:40:01,830 it boils down to all kinds of 848 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:05,580 psychological effects and I think that I 849 00:40:11,390 --> 00:40:07,970 I know some people who dedicated you're 850 00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:11,400 serious portion of their life trying to 851 00:40:18,500 --> 00:40:14,640 find something and coming up with a 852 00:40:23,420 --> 00:40:18,510 conclusion nope nothing there but you 853 00:40:25,849 --> 00:40:23,430 know it's amazing proof of some sense 854 00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:25,859 that we're not aware of I heard some 855 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:29,280 Engineer found some senses on our skin 856 00:40:35,150 --> 00:40:32,090 that can pick up some radiation like 857 00:40:36,650 --> 00:40:35,160 whoo that's not impossible could be that 858 00:40:38,780 --> 00:40:36,660 we're not using it but it could be there 859 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:38,790 it could be that's there and we're kind 860 00:40:46,070 --> 00:40:41,010 of using it in very rare occasions like 861 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:46,080 theoretically flow will cope right right 862 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:48,690 you know there are a lot of people would 863 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:50,970 say coincidences but you know of certain 864 00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:54,810 things that have happened and also you 865 00:40:59,810 --> 00:40:57,930 know it gets into near-death experiences 866 00:41:01,400 --> 00:40:59,820 and all that you know these it just 867 00:41:04,910 --> 00:41:01,410 seems like there's so much to know and 868 00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:04,920 and but you're right these extraordinary 869 00:41:09,380 --> 00:41:07,260 claims needs extraordinary evidence as 870 00:41:14,810 --> 00:41:09,390 as they say we all enjoy that that's 871 00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:14,820 awesome yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well um 872 00:41:22,609 --> 00:41:17,730 I I think this is uh it's been really 873 00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:22,619 interesting let's see this is this is 874 00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:24,000 just one question that just popped up 875 00:41:28,580 --> 00:41:26,880 though I'd like to ask you you mentioned 876 00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:28,590 about you know government's whether we 877 00:41:34,490 --> 00:41:30,960 trust governments are not do you happen 878 00:41:38,410 --> 00:41:34,500 to know of any operations of any 879 00:41:41,810 --> 00:41:38,420 weaponizing of artificial intelligence 880 00:41:44,180 --> 00:41:41,820 absolutely I like absolutely a train 881 00:41:46,609 --> 00:41:44,190 wreck knowledge ease artificial 882 00:41:50,540 --> 00:41:46,619 intelligence absolutely there's they're 883 00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:50,550 putting a lot of resources they're 884 00:41:55,609 --> 00:41:53,609 working on very ambitious projects and 885 00:41:58,370 --> 00:41:55,619 you know I hope most of it is stuff that 886 00:42:00,050 --> 00:41:58,380 again we can trust our governments you 887 00:42:07,310 --> 00:42:00,060 know not to use against us and against 888 00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:07,320 each other but definitely it's it's 889 00:42:12,109 --> 00:42:09,510 going to get interesting yeah yeah I 890 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:12,119 could see why I could see why that would 891 00:42:15,930 --> 00:42:13,450 be a big 892 00:42:19,380 --> 00:42:15,940 a you know a big thing to have the upper 893 00:42:23,220 --> 00:42:19,390 hand on on the enemy with any type of 894 00:42:27,060 --> 00:42:23,230 technology so being a is absolutely 895 00:42:29,819 --> 00:42:27,070 absolutely the spelling billions haha I 896 00:42:32,490 --> 00:42:29,829 don't doubt it all right well um where 897 00:42:34,319 --> 00:42:32,500 could someone find your work do you have 898 00:42:35,970 --> 00:42:34,329 I can't remember how I found you did I 899 00:42:39,089 --> 00:42:35,980 find you through the university is that 900 00:42:40,890 --> 00:42:39,099 how someone could contact you to be 901 00:42:43,710 --> 00:42:40,900 honest I don't remember but we do have a 902 00:42:46,740 --> 00:42:43,720 website it's quite you can't find I try 903 00:42:49,079 --> 00:42:46,750 I try to keep it updated there's a 904 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:49,089 youtube channel with videos and you know 905 00:42:52,650 --> 00:42:51,130 it's very eclectic mix to some videos 906 00:42:56,940 --> 00:42:52,660 are really high quality and so much a 907 00:43:00,030 --> 00:42:56,950 student project but the web site is al 908 00:43:04,319 --> 00:43:00,040 that's for advanced virtuality lab so 909 00:43:10,829 --> 00:43:04,329 AVL dot IDC I this interdisciplinary 910 00:43:12,359 --> 00:43:10,839 Center IL IL for Israel so AVL advanced 911 00:43:13,829 --> 00:43:12,369 virtuality lab actually it's called it 912 00:43:18,359 --> 00:43:13,839 less reality lab but we keep it 913 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:18,369 deliberately um you know convey so 914 00:43:22,740 --> 00:43:20,050 search advanced reality level as 915 00:43:26,010 --> 00:43:22,750 virtuality level Google Oh Israel and 916 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:26,020 you probably find it great well thanks 917 00:43:28,980 --> 00:43:27,490 you know it's really it's really going 918 00:43:31,319 --> 00:43:28,990 to be an interesting ride to see where 919 00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:31,329 all this goes you know it'd be great if 920 00:43:35,730 --> 00:43:33,520 you know you could just take a peek 921 00:43:37,260 --> 00:43:35,740 ahead time travel into the future and 922 00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:37,270 see where all technology goes that would 923 00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:39,609 be really exciting and interesting I 924 00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:43,359 sure hope anyway alright I think you 925 00:43:48,450 --> 00:43:45,250 shouldn't be too worried yeah yeah we 926 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:48,460 should be feel full but optimistic ok 927 00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:50,650 it's great talking to ray talking you